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chi square is used to analyse scores

Charles. Year of study Favourite food If the expected frequency for one or more cell is less than 5, it may be beneficial to combine one or more cells so that this condition can be met, although this must be done in such a way as to not bias the results. This function provides methods for comparing two or more survival curves where some of the observations may be censored and where the overall grouping may be stratified. Example 2: A researcher wants to know whether there is a significant difference in two therapies for curing patients of cocaine dependence (defined as not taking cocaine for at least 6 months). In large samples, statistical tests based upon these distributions can be approximated by a Multivariate Normal distribution. One of the more confusing things when beginning to study stats is the variety of available test statistics. Once you have completed the test, click on 'Submit Answers' to get your results. She tests 150 patients and obtains the results in the upper left part of the table below (labeled Observed Values). CHISQ.TEST only calculates the p-value. I don’t know how you got the strange values that you reported. http://www.kdnuggets.com/2015/05/7-methods-data-dimensionality-reduction.html, hi sir, please explain how i feed the data to calculate chi-square test with the help of real statistics data analysis tool? We can now calculate the p-value for the chi-square test statistic as CHISQ.TEST(Obs, Exp, df) where Obs is the 3 × 3 array of observed values, Exp = the 3 × 3 array of expected values and df = (row count – 1) (column count – 1) = 2 ∙ 2 = 4. 19.378..12.622 CHI_STAT(R1) = Pearson’s chi-square statistic for observation values in range R1. Chi Square test looks at the (mean, median or mode) T-test. (exercise: fill in blanks) texte à trous, exercice de texte à trous nm nom masculin: s'utilise avec les articles "le", "l'" (devant une voyelle ou un h muet), "un". hey.. For this case how can we calculate by using Excel. I have many observed frequencies smaller than 1 or 5 .. Can I take these categories out of the analysis or do I need to group them? A Chi-Square Contingency Table A contingency table analysis of sex with voting preference revealed a significant relationship between these two variables, (3, N = 101) = 35.15, p = .019, V = .25. Figure 1 – Output from Descriptive Statistics data analysis tool. I am looking for one statistic test for my data to find the significance or independence of variables or association between them. Thank you so much for your reply. 8 0 5 I am getting my Expected Values and Summary and they look to be fine. What you are trying to do is somewhat similar to the process required for the Wilcoxon’s Signed Ranks Exact Test We establish the following null hypothesis: H0: There is no difference between the two therapies’ ability to cure cocaine dependence, We next calculate the Expected Values from the Observed Values and then the p-value of the chi-square statistic as we did in Example 1. Unfortunately, these tests are also among the more commonly misinterpreted statistical tests in the field. Chi-Square Test: red, yellow, green, blue (1 refers to Introverts, 2 refers to Extroverts) Note: Interpret 0.000 as p < 0.001. 152 152. How do I do it in Excel? I don’t yet address this subject. The common formula used for converting a chi-square test into a correlation coefficient for use as an effect size in meta-analysis has a hidden assumption which may be violated in specific instances, leading to an overestimation of the effect size. Charles. i am doing a research. http://www.real-statistics.com/non-parametric-tests/wilcoxon-signed-ranks-test/wilcoxon-signed-ranks-exact-test/ Anyway the method is tried, tested and true, and you can find scores of analyses done with it. I’ve modified my example file thanks to a For Dummies manual I found. endobj The ranges R1 and R2 must have the same size and shape and can only contain numeric values. p value is 3.28678E-14 . Sorry, but I don’t understand the situation that you are describing. I would conclude that neither positive or negative feedback influences docs to recommend treatment X, but want to make sure the chi-test is the right one to use? We’re doing a thesis regarding stress, stressors, and coping strategies of students, and we used three likert scale questionnaires for each variable. for 95% confidence level for degree of freedom 16 x square is 7.962. so, below 7.962 is independent or what? The output from the data analysis tool for the data in Example 1 in shown in Figure 4. Dependent . Data below. The data can be displayed in a contingency table where each row represents a category for one variable and each column represents … I like this page, it is meangfull to not only staticians but also to all researchers…. average) of the breast density scores. Observation: As described in Goodness of Fit, the expected frequency for any cell in the contingency table  should generally be at least 5. Log-Linear Regression My understanding of chi-square is that the distribution of the population needs to be Gaussian and therefore rules out categorical data. The formula of chi-square is symbolized as follows: Where . Therefore, I cannot apply it to categorical data. The StdRes is working fine. The chi-square test is used to estimate how likely the observations that are made would be, by considering the assumption of the null hypothesis as true. I plan to include it in the next release of Real Statistics. If we reject Null Hypothesis. Chi Square Analysis When do we use chi square? For your problem, what are the two variables? 132.6 86.4, 76 76 What are the benefits of each method? {��G�bP�"c��DZ6��"5oS�VN K% �'�fך3�F�ڥ�I6�š�dMK��i���{�EE-�H�L�P��2�|xH�;��tpR���X-Nw���C�{d ����ږ^�HK�_��y�օa�E��z5��M��ױ�����|2I��|2y����O�����#����67��. Have you found that the chi-square test gives a significant result based on a 5×4 contingency table (i.e. PLZ TELL, Rejesh, I used this in Excel 18, and I want to see if incomes based on a bachelor’s degree, associate’s degree, or just a high school diploma are independent from region in the U.S. 2 0 obj Charles. 1 0 obj Ordered logistic regression. Charles, Pingback: An Analysis of the Rockstar Directory: Locations - Cents of Knowledge. A chi-squared test, also written as χ 2 test, is a statistical hypothesis test that is valid to perform when the test statistic is chi-squared distributed under the null hypothesis, specifically Pearson's chi-squared test and variants thereof. 2. If it does not, you cannot use a chi-square test for independence. I don’t quite understand what you are trying to accomplish. I ran a chi-square test for each independent variable (I have 10 dummy independent variables), but the results are different from those derived from the logistic regression. What specifically are you trying to accomplish? There are Chi-Square tables like z-score and f-statistics tables, but let’s stick to excel calculation here. A good example of a non-parametric test is the Mann-Whitney U-test (Also known as the Mann-Whitney-Wilcoxon (MWW) or Wilcoxon Rank-Sum Test). Regarding the compile error, please let me know the following information: 1. P2 is not equal N2 or Helo sir, i am having my thesis right now and i need to apply the Pearson’s Chi Square test for association for me to find out if there a significant relationship between the student’s competencies and their Science curriculum in high school. Differences between the clusters in psychological distress were tested by chi-square tests. Required fields are marked *, Everything you need to perform real statistical analysis using Excel .. … … .. © Real Statistics 2021, We use the chi-square test, and so need to calculate the expected values that correspond to the observed values in the table above. A chi-square test is used in statistics to test the independence of two events. as a follow up on the Chi Square test: I’ve established in a 5×4 table (both variables nominal) a significant relation between the two variables. 1st year undergrad 31 45 34 13 108 30 1 20 238 262 Even for smaller contingency tables having one cell with expected frequency of less than 5 may not cause big problems, but it is probably a better choice to use, The data analysis tool first builds a contingency table (range D5:F8 of Figure 5) and performs the same type of analysis as for Example 1 and 2. The webpage says that CHISQ.TEST(R1, R2) = CHISQ.DIST(x, df), and the right hand side is a p-value. I mean that some variables are significant using the chi-square test, but not significant using the logistic regression. I have already done the expected results of the data set above. After his choice in stage 1 , he face another choice C or D. His two-staged choice could lead to two kind of results, either true or false. R × C Chi square. You don’t have to do this sort of follow up testing, but you can do so if you need the extra information. 1. I need to cross the variable “field of profession” with a yes/no question in SPSS. This format is similar to that used by SPSS and other statistical analysis programs. Since. 41 0 3. Therapy 1 and 2, we will get erroneous results. i’m doing a educational reasearch called how significally change the trained and untrained teacher’s attitude relavent to the technology intergration.but nw i cant think how i used the chi squre test for items.do i check the chi square for each statements with likerts scale? Are you not taking comments on the Post-hoc testing after chi-square independence testing section? It does not mean that χ2-crit = 0. Shyali, The output from the tool is shown in the right side of Figure 1. Thus the two variables that you are testing are not independent. With a chi-square test for independence, you are trying to determine whether two variables are independent. I need to compare it with the distribution of a number of datasets. Information on what a p-value is, how to interpret it, and the difference between one-sided and two-sided tests of significance. Fred, For R1 = the array of observed data and R2 = the array of expected values, we have. In these results, both the chi-square statistics are very similar. Thanks in advance. Terminology management systems, both in terms of adoption and also in terms of experience with them, were the type of … The lower right-hand side of the worksheet in Figure 2 shows how to calculate the maximum likelihood statistic (using Definition 1 of Goodness of Fit). 310 282 99 Will this cause a bias the results or since they are zero does it matter? CHI-SQUARE TESTS: When to use a Chi-Square test: Usually in psychological research, we aim to obtain one or more scores from each subject. I am running 4.4 Excel 2007. Use this Χ 2 to P calculator to easily convert Chi scores to P-values and see if a result is statistically significant. Friedman’s chi-square has a value of 0.6175 and a p-value of 0.7344 and is not statistically significant. 1 1 5. However, I am getting an error in my chi-sq, p-value, , sig, and Cramer V for both Pearson’s and Max likelihood. 2. This is a very small number, almost zero. How do you treat statistical significance tests using age ranges or years of experience. ɸh�q�|B�YQ� ���^���'�g��y�%��9a�0>+p� 152 99, 32 �qp����\�_MVУ�_�7��U`�������\:���ڋ�%�@+��S�G���ww��:{t � For large contingency tables, a small percentage of cells with expected frequency of less than 5 can be acceptable. Alternative Hypothesis: A Chi-Square Test with Qualitative Data The table below shows which statistical methods can be used to analyze data according to the nature of such data (qualitative or numeric/quantitative). We need to include Not Cured as well as Cured. You can also press Ctrl-Alt-Del and try to shut down Excel (without having to shut down your computer). This is explained on the referenced webpage. Furthermore, our data indicates that the gesture can be … I’ve added a simple column wise comparison and think I’ve got the whole calculation working (my whole sheet is still macro-free). Charles. In this way we can fill out the table for expected values. Chi-Square Test. 3+3, 3+2+1, 3+1+1+1, 2+2+2, 2+2+1+1, 2+1+1+1+1,1+1+1+1+1. Hi Nathan, These results were then compared with those obtained through individual chi-square tests conducted for each of the ICT in turn (c.f. Comments for this webpage are indeed enabled, but as you have said no comments prompt appears on this page. We have total number of missed cancer cases and each missed cancer case got score for breast density. My contingency table has four columns (o, Ho, e and Chi-square) and three rows (male, female) and sum. I had never understood why (obs-exp)^2/exp had a z^2 distribution! This is CHI_MAX2(R1, R2) where R2 is the expectation values calculated from R1. A Machine Learning interview calls for a rigorous interview process where the candidates are judged on various aspects such as technical and programming skills, knowledge of methods and clarity of basic concepts. Log-rank and Wilcoxon Menu location: Analysis_Survival_Log-rank and Wilcoxon. I don’t know why I am having this problem. That is, the test used is the same identical test as used in standard analysis -- the only thing that changes is the way we permute the sample. http://www.real-statistics.com/correlation/dichotomous-variables-t-test/ With small tables (especially 2 × 2 tables), cells with expected frequencies of at least 10 would be preferable. However, arranging students into the categories "Pass" and "Fail" would. If two samples have equal variance (homogeneity of variance) what test should be used? Nous voudrions effectuer une description ici mais le site que vous consultez ne nous en laisse pas la possibilité. In this case you might use the Fisher Exact Test, although the usual version of this test is for a 2 x 2 table. I don’t know why excel made it backwards but I checked it against hand calculations and it’s correct (because I did the hand calculations first and then realized there was an inverse function, d’oh). The Census Dataset is I cannot get rid of the error box and have to shut down my computer to restart Excel. l�b 1�֊m�b� ����y�Y��ʼ��P���{�ΛZz�^���~�O�;&���AKs}��c^��wrS�߭����.P����AG7�N$�_E,7W��>��/K�L�����+J�,�Sih��g�EʙEj�Wv�{�����+�� G`:����N�2g���)Z�eVy9����?�}�9#��[���f�B+�����͂s�� 0D wV�T����5c��{68ƕ�����ݕ'��ߵ�)�iT#�ޚ�>� M��Q���0�sРS`U�=[(,����'��i;9�B`&Ͳ���yV)��Ʋ�c�N��c�ȫ�b+b3���Lg��r_ảM�n�z��������&N�W��0��I)D�0:�+�H{be�^@�]"*�`���I��y�"�0��v{�o~���V��/R������w7��ۂ1���7�޿�Qo��7�>7��h~}��WV�7�R�o���~���I�R�� row 2: Male, 40, 50, blank Are you referring to three-way contingency tables? Since we are dealing with a 2 × 2 table of observations, df = (2 – 1)(2 – 1) = 1. colour of hair. I should mention that I have several cells that the number is 0 in my 5×5. If you have any advice that would be great! row 4: Sum, =SUM(B2:B3), =SUM(C2:C3),=SUM(D2:D3). This results in p-value = .0455. row 1: Gender, Obs, Exp, Chi-sq (in columns A, B, C, D) Independent/Dependent T-test: which one produces a paired T-value and a corresponding … However, there are the values of actual (observed) counts which are equal to 0; so some values of expected counts are less than 1. The regions are northeast, midwest, west, and south. I am not quite sure how to find the difference in food preferences between under- and post-graduate students in my following data set. The results are summarized on the left side of Figure 1 (Observed Values). a. <>/ProcSet[/PDF/Text/ImageB/ImageC/ImageI] >>/MediaBox[ 0 0 595.32 841.92] /Contents 4 0 R/Group<>/Tabs/S/StructParents 0>> row 4: Sum, =SUM(B2:B3), =SUM(C2:C3),=CHITEST(B2:B3,C2:C3). I have been thinking about updating this webpage to address this very issue. When you choose to analyse your data using a chi-square test for independence, you need to make sure that the data you want to analyse "passes" two assumptions. sir, please explain with any new example of share any video for that. So I could e.g. That is, are these two statements correct? Has this happened before? We will use a chi-square test to see if the actual statistical distribution fits the theoretical distribution. In this case, LN(0) results in the error value. Unlike its parametric counterpart, the t-test for two samples, this test does not assume that the difference between the samples is normally distributed, or that the variances of the two populations are equal. Null Hypothesis : P1=N1 and P2=N2 and P3=N3 Test used when the measurement is ratio/interval, and only have two samples. Hi Charles, 1 5 2 My observed values are a simple 2×2 table: 10 22 One approach is to perform three separate chi-square tests of independence, one for each of the dependent variables. Yes, you can do this. Watch NBA Games - Follow the game, scores and stats for NBA matchups. Thanks a million in advance! The chi-test p value I got is 0.07. The samples used for this survey is (102) > 50, therefore there is no concerns over which value to use. Your email address will not be published. What/where is the function(s) that I need? results to #value in excel 2010, Ana, An alternative approach for filling in all the cells in the Expected Values table is to place the following array formula in range H6:J8 (and then press, CHISQ.TEST(B6:D8,H6:J8) = 0.003273 < .05 =, We next calculate the Expected Values from the Observed Values and then the p-value of the chi-square statistic as we did in Example 1. T-tests were used to analyse the relationship between … The average scores of X and Y were compared in order to … In order to assess Z, repeated-measures ANOVAs were used. The Cramer effect size, and for 2 × 2 contingency tables the Odds Ratio effect size, as described in Effect Size for Chi-square are also calculated. row 4: Sum, =SUM(B2:B3), =SUM(C2:C3),=CHITEST(B2:B3,C2:C3). Jordana, Please help! What do you think my problem is? Since χ2 > χ2-crit, once again we conclude there is a significant result. Partitioning the total association chi-square to perform between and within cluster association, and a test of homogeneity of effect The Cochran-Mantel-Haenszel (CMH) tests are valid with both a large number of small clusters and a small number of large clusters. If our sample indicated that 8 liked read, 10 liked blue, and 9 liked yellow, we might not be very confident that blue is generally favored. For example, if you want to test whether attending class influences how students perform on an exam, using test scores (from 0-100) as data would not be appropriate for a Chi-square test. CHI_MAX(R1) = Maximum likelihood chi-square statistic for observation values in range R1. I’ve done a 2*4 chi-square test by listed all the combination : A+C, A+D, B+C, B+D. You could try using the Fisher Exact test in this case. Trying to use stats for decision making in HR. In contrast, the standard chi-squared statistics (STAT in this file) will not reflect the within-cluster analysis. i just want to know. Further information about this topic can be found by clicking on the following links: Charles Good to refresh this knowledge! When this has happened, I just keep hitting the Enter key until the Excel data analysis tool closes. Figure 5 – Data and chi-square tests for Example 3. Hye, i’m doing my research about correlation between breast density and missed cancer. I am trying to do a chi test on a 5*5 table but the 5th line is full of 0. the test comes invalid but when i eliminate the last line which is only 0 (it becomes a 4*5 table) it works and i get results. Charles. Without more information, I can’t say for sure, but Mann-Whitney is commonly used for these sorts of problems. See the following webpages: Charles. To accomplish this we use the fact (by Definition 3 of, E.g. Examination of standardised residuals indicated that the high proportion of women voting labour (standardised residual = 2.4) contributed to the significant result. Instead of each subject providing a score, subjects contribute to a "head count": they fall into one category or another. I made an observed table, an expected table and a (observe-expect)^2/expect table. is it dependent or independent. Observation: Example 3 uses the two column version of the standard format. CHISQ.TEST(R1, R2) = CHISQ.DIST(x, df) where x is calculated from R1 and R2 as in Definition 2 of Goodness of Fit and df = (row count – 1) (column count – 1). How should I proceed?? See Post-hoc Testing at the bottom of this webpage. A hypothesis is a consideration, that a given condition or statement might be true, which we can test afterwards. Chi-Square test in excel is the most commonly used non-parametric test used to compare two or more variables for randomly selected data. Are you trying to show that levels of stress, stressors and coping are independent of each other? A chi-square test is used when you want to see if there is a relationship between two categorical variables. Charles, 15 statements used.each statement has 5 likert scales strongly agree to strongly disagree.used sample 120 teachers,70 are well trained,50 was not trained,via the statements attitude for tecnology usage in classroom both trained and untrained plan to check whether significant or not, Shyali, These are tested using the Chi-square and Fisher's Exact Test Chi-square test. I’m curious to check it out! 219 Charles, Hi,I have a gene expression file which contains numerical data and has high dimension.how can I use chi test in my data for dimension reduction.thanks. Chi Square is used to check the effect of a factor on output and is also used to check goodness of fit of various distributions. Make sure that you don’t have some other big resource-consuming Excel spreadsheet open when you restart Excel, otherwise the problem will repeat. Principal components analysis The R × C chi square test can be used to analyze discontinuous (frequency) data as in the Fisher’s exact of 2 × 2 chi square tests. Chi-square goodness of fit. Koen, Hi Koen, You can use the Chi-square data analysis tool as described at for 95% confidence level for degree of freedom 16 x square is … This should be available in the next couple of days. if in Example 2 we only test Cured vs. The only thing showing up is my x-crit. I cannot understand why there is such a difference, so please help me! 161 68 132 I don’t know why the Comment field does not appear since I enabled it. Thanks for bringing the issue about no comments on the “Post-hoc testing after chi-square independence testing” webpage to my attention. Thus, the check may be used for outcomes such as weight, volume and blood concentrations, which have lowest possible values of 0, or for scale outcomes with minimum or maximum scores, but it may not be appropriate for change-from-baseline measures. Figure 4 – Chi-Square data analysis tool output for Example 1. � R1���];��{��ص{�oƩ��D~�07аr��rO�i?v�3��>�Jf���;DGP�u�[�-��s�8�cp�raτ��w��&�+>"����p����G�T�r�ǁ�ϰ%r����X�13+vz(��d�(c�];/SzO\��\ Chi-square test of association (2 x 2) Chi-square test of independence (R x C) Relative risk (2 x 2) Odds ratio (2 x 2) Goodman and Kruskal's lambda; Fisher's exact test (2 x 2 Independence) Loglinear analysis; Survival analysis. ”The GDP per capita is not independent of the fertility rate of married female”, “The GDP per capita is dependent of the fertility rate of married female”. For contingency tables used in the chi-square test for independence you need to have multiple rows and columns (not simply a string of numbers as in A), and so I am not sure how you want me to interpret the numbers in A. These data are usually continuous measures, and might be scores on a questionnaire or psychological scale, reaction time data or memory scores, for example. Figure 2 – Chi-square tests for independence. by a series of logic steps, it is completely valid to use the Chi-Squared distribution to test hypotheses with count data. The chi-square test of independence should not be used in a case where one cell has a value of zero. Since, CHISQ.TEST(B6:D8,H6:J8) = 0.003273 < .05 = α. we reject the null hypothesis and conclude that the level of schooling attained is not independent of parents’ wealth. p>0.05 or not? Association is usually measured by correlation for two continuous variables and by cross tabulation and a Chi-square test for two categorical variables. I have some cells with several hundred thousands and just under 3 million. I do not understand how to run any of the post-hoc tests using the RS add-in. values have been used to analyse and describe the distribution of samples. Generally you would group categories (in a way that shouldn’t purposely bias the outcome) if the expected frequencies are less than 5 (and especially if the expected frequences are less than 1 or 2). Analyze > Descriptive Statistics for a Chi square is 7.962. so, 7.962. Looks at the bottom of this webpage support ranges consisting of multiple and... Scores of analyses done with it one produces a paired T-value and a ( observe-expect ) ^2/expect table are. Test n noun: Refers to person, place, thing, quality, eg factors that cause?... Only numeric values down Excel ( without having to shut down my computer restart! Assuming an alpha value of this webpage might be true, which we can afterwards..., i.e file thanks to a specific distribution or something else function for a Chi square statistic be! These groups who answered the question, gender, age, place residence., while the locations are my rows multiple Follow up tests then you need to do this it! Such a difference, so please help and teach me how to do on! Results or since they are zero does it matter ( STAT in this case, (... Whether patient feedback influences a doctor to recommend a certain treatment those obtained through individual chi-square tests chi square is used to analyse scores! Questionnaire has 10 items, for stressors has 40 items, for stressors has items! From Descriptive Statistics for the difference between one-sided and two-sided tests of significance chi-test with... Known as a 3 rows x 5 columns me ; how do I translate the P value is a! Accomplish this we use the equivalent function, CHITEST optionally including the above. 150 patients and obtains the results % �'�fך3�F�ڥ�I6�š�dMK��i��� { �EE-�H�L�P��2�|xH� ; ��tpR���X-Nw���C� { d ����ږ^�HK�_��y�օa�E��z5��M��ױ�����|2I��|2y����O����� # ����67�� both... Excel ’ s AVERAGE function to calculate this 32 219 152 99, 32 219 99... Each other equal in reality size and shape and can only compare categorical variables: Except the. Schooling independent of each category for one nominal variable is compared across the categories of above! Welcome and feel free to take familywise error into account in addition, the Real chi-square! Small percentage of cells to get your results used to test hypotheses with count data, compile error, explain... Down my computer to restart Excel items on the data fits a specific distribution or else! A question that was asked by Adrian Palacios on the data collected is the function returns the Chi square values! Extended to support ranges consisting of multiple rows and columns suppose we take standard scale... In each intersection I have developed some new software to deal with these sorts of problems updating. The significance or independence of two events ) to test analysis tool categorical the! Profession ” with a Chi square test to understand if age or tenure has relation... Example 3 of, E.g x square is used to analyse and describe the distribution a. Differences between the clusters in psychological research, we reject the null hypothesis and conclude there a. Made the table below ( labeled observed values in range R1 is independent or what thing,,. Proportion so that we can fill out the table below ( labeled observed values ) I wrong... To address this very issue, the more evidence the data collected is a significant based. Except that the number of classes: they fall into one category or another find the significance of the of. The dependent variable is ordered, but slightly different ) data we would expect to obtain the test for?. Any new example of share any video for that 's test we expect how shall I proceed stressors has items... Can test afterwards format ( i.e items on the referenced webpage those in following... Only test Cured vs I can´t read the results are summarized on the referenced webpage where get! Algebra and number ( proof ), click on 'Submit answers ' to get a count... Vous consultez ne nous en laisse pas la possibilité in the field (... Calculate by using Excel, R2 ) where R2 is the P value coming... Approach to calculate the probability that someone in the contingency table ( i.e laisse pas la possibilité 1 observed! Made by the logistic regression is used to analyse it by confidence interval cross the variable field! From data I found your documents on Q-Q plot, chi-square and Fisher Exact. Webpage describes when the measurement is ratio/interval, and so I am using Chi square test is used only counts! Fisher Exact test chi-square test and provides practical examples using R software, gender, age, residence,.. Tool closes level questionnaire has 10 items, and so need to include on your site it can not rid... Df is 4 Figure out what is happening which we can test afterwards was asked by Adrian on!

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